The guys at NDBF and the various arch-conservatives at M* and T&S let out a little gasp of joy and curled their toes in sheer delight when Larry King's wife publicly came out in support of ID, while these guys alternated between laughing and swearing.


Gary said... @ November 23, 2005 at 5:10 PM

To set the record straight, NDBF is a one man blog and I'm not a fan of ID. So, either you don't know what ID is or you haven't read my blog (I'm guessing neither).

antiprude said... @ November 25, 2005 at 8:35 AM


I just skimmed your blog and don't get the point. Chase out all the smart people in the church who see no conflict between faith and evolution, including the evolution of our mortal bodies?

I saw your long post based on various BKP quotes; you seem too smart to base a post on the bogus boogey man pronouncements of such an intellectual lightweight. To be fair to BKP, a high IQ isn't a requirement to serve Jesus, but a humble servant should know his/her limitations. In this case, BKP has clumsily undermined the faith of many. Beware of false prophets? And don’t tell be an apostle can’t fall into that camp, both Jesus and JS had to deal with them.

Gary said... @ November 25, 2005 at 9:52 AM

antiprude: You quickly and superficially glanced through my blog (see American Heritage Dictionary, s.v. skim), and now you presume to speak intelligently about its contents?

You remind me of Chris Buttars, Utah State Senator, who promotes ID in Utah without know what it is (see here). Buttars has been disowned by Discovery Institute, the most visible arm of the "Intelligent Design" movement. "We wish [Buttars] would get the name right and not propose something he doesn't understand," said John West, associate director of the Discovery Institute's Center for Science and Culture in Seattle (see here). You'd think a person would spend at least a few hours studying his subject before writing about it in USA Today. But alas, it is painfully obvious that Buttars, like you, chose to "skim" and shoot from the hip.

gary said... @ November 25, 2005 at 7:37 PM

antiprude: Another thing,

----------------- quote -----------------
"The Lord gives the authority to judge and condemn only to the regularly constituted councils of the Church and not to man generally; and those who lift their voices against the authority of the Holy Priesthood will go down to hell, unless they repent." (Spencer W. Kimball, Ensign, Jan. 1973, 35.)
--------------- end quote ---------------

Accusing President Packer of being an intellectual lightweight with a low IQ places you on the fringe of LDS faith. To the rest of us he is a heavyweight—spiritually, doctrinally, and intellectually—until the First Presidency announces otherwise.

Steve EM said... @ November 26, 2005 at 7:17 AM

I'm w/ antiprude. Preach only repentance to this generation. Seems BKP grossly exceeded his authority on this subject, as have many church leaders on many subjects. They're people like us and entitled to make mistakes, and thier pronouncements should be so considered.

Ironic that blind faith and orthodoxy always leads to apostasy.

Stephen said... @ November 26, 2005 at 9:08 AM

Preach only repentance to this generation

God told them that, over and over.

But, do we listen ourselves?

Stephen said... @ November 26, 2005 at 2:38 PM

Hmm, I note that your posting rate has slowed.

Guess Thanksgiving weekend slows down the snark.

Hope you've had a happy one.

Gary said... @ November 27, 2005 at 2:48 PM

Stephen said: “Preach only repentance to this generation. God told them that, over and over.”  This is a decontextualised non-quotation. However, Elder Bruce R. McConkie has accurately quoted and explained it as follows: “To preach repentance is to preach the gospel in its fulness, for it is through repentance that men accept the gospel, have their sins washed away, and get on the path leading to eternal life. The latter-day command, ‘Say nothing but repentance unto this generation’ (D&C 6:9; 11:9), is tantamount to saying, ‘Preach my gospel to this generation.’ ” (Doctrinal New Testament Commentary, 1973, 1:328.)

Consistent with this principle of preaching repentance, Church leaders have implemented the 2004 Preach My Gospel missionary manual which replaces the six discussions used previously. The title Preach My Gospel (not Preach Repentance) comes from D&C 50:14. “Intensive effort on the part of the First Presidency, the Quorum of the Twelve, other General Authorities, and most capable teams of devoted, experienced staff members produced Preach My Gospel and its planning tools.” (Richard G. Scott, Ensign, May 2005, 29.)

The 228 page Preach My Gospel manual covers a wide variety of Gospel doctrines, including the Creation, Fall, and Atonement. Among the Key Definitions for Lesson 2: The Plan of Salvation, is this important statement about the Fall: “Adam became the ‘first flesh’ upon the earth (Moses 3:7).”

A clear explanation of ‘first flesh’ was published by the Church's Tenth President after he became President of the Church: “Then what is meant by the ‘first flesh’? It is simple when you understand it. Adam was the first of all creatures to fall and become flesh, and flesh in this sense means mortality, and all through our scriptures the Lord speaks of this life as flesh, while we are here in the flesh, so Adam became the first flesh. There was no other mortal creature before him, and there was no mortal death until he brought it, and the scriptures tell you that. It is here written, and that is the gospel of Jesus Christ.” (Joseph Fielding Smith, Seek Ye Earnestly, 1970, 281.)

Doctrinally, Latter-day Saints are commanded to say “none other things than that which the prophets and apostles have written” (D&C 52:9). Stephen, you might want to do a little doctrinal research yourself before accusing President Packer of grossly exceeding his authority on evolution or any other subject.

Snarkimus Prime said... @ November 28, 2005 at 6:32 AM

Gary and Antiprude,

Hello? Guys? This blog is a joke. Satire. Get it? As in "not serious So, Gary, if your position was misrepresented so as to make light of some silly thing uttered by Larry King's seventh wife, then that is only par for the course around here.

Steve EM said... @ November 28, 2005 at 6:35 PM

Is there room for two iron rods in the nacle?

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